Cynical Nation

Why does it seem unbelievable? Seems more like an ongoing trend to me.

You are wrong. Hillary voted for cutting the funding for the war effective March 2008. That is a crystal-clear position. She has understood that Iraq was a mistake, and I believe that if she is elected, she will correct it.

Her change may make me vote for her at the end. I had promised myself that I would never vote for her because of her previous support of the war. But this change, combined with the vitriolic attacks of the far right on her, may somehow lead me to vote for her in the primaries.

Well, her position might appear "crystal clear" so long as one doesn't try to reconcile it with the other conflicting comments and statements she made not only in the past, but even on the very day she cast this vote. Makes John Kerry look like a rock of certitude by comparison.

"Makes John Kerry look like a rock of certitude by comparison.

Are you a little biased here? In that case how do people like McCain, Giuliani, or Romney look? Like lost in space in other planets?

I think Hillary has clear positions now. She made clear that she wants the war over and she is voting like that.

From the AP's story describing yesterday's vote:

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton voted Wednesday to advance legislation cutting off money for the Iraq war, then refused to pledge to support the measure if it came to a vote, then said she would.

At lunchtime, the New York senator and presidential candidate was asked repeatedly by reporters whether she favored the troop withdrawal legislation that had just come up for a procedural vote on the Senate floor.

Her answer: "I'm not going to speculate on what I'm going to be voting on in the future. I voted in favor of cloture to have a debate."

By supper time, she had a different answer.

You say that Hillary has "clear positions." I see now why you used the plural. Seems appropriate.

Ok,
If thats the correct interpretation, why did ALL republicans and many democrats (mostly right-wingers/conservative) voted against it? Clinton (and the majority of the democrats) voted for it because they want the senate to debate CUTTING FUNDING for the war. To me it seems pretty clear that if you want a debate for something like that you have a clear position AGAINST the continuation of the war.

Are you a little biased here?

Do you have to characterize having an opinion as being "a little bias"?

To me it seems pretty clear that if you want a debate for something like that you have a clear position AGAINST the continuation of the war.

Why is that clear cut, when it clearly says that she first "refused to pledge to support the measure if it came to a vote".

Voting in favor of deciding whether or not to vote is not the same thing as voting for something.

"why did ALL republicans and many democrats (mostly right-wingers/conservative) voted against it?" (BW)


Well, for one thing, the Republicans smartly WANT the Democrats to make the decision (over their objections to cut funding)...that way they can blame everything after that (the defeat, the implosion of Iraq, a resurgent al Qaeda) on the Dems.

It's only right.

The Dems have played politics with the war, now the Republicans are playing politics over the exit strategy.

Seems about right.

Adam,
You have been (and I assume continue to be) a staunch supporter of the war. I am not sure you are qualified to judge the credentials of antiwar democrats. Hillary has made clear over and over again that if she becomes president (and I think she will), she will end the war. She has said these words repeatedly. I believe her.

>You have been (and I assume continue to be) a staunch supporter of the war. I am not sure you are qualified to judge the credentials of antiwar democrats.

When you stop judging pro-war Republicans, I'll force Adam to stop judging anti-war Dems, deal?

Hillary has made clear over and over again that if she becomes president (and I think she will), she will end the war. She has said these words repeatedly. I believe her.

She's also said she'll leave a significant number of American troops in place in Iraq once the war ends. Do you believe her on that score too?

"When you stop judging pro-war Republicans, I'll force Adam to stop judging anti-war Dems, deal?"

Deal :)

And yes, I believe HIllary on that score too. That has been a concern I have about her. I hope she changes her mind. Iraq should be abandoned completely, in my opinion of course.

> I hope she changes her mind.

No doubt you'll get your wish. ;)

I always get a laugh (kind of a nervous "oh shit not another one" laugh) how liberals are the only ones allowed to pass judgment on those with opposing views. No one else "has the credentials". wtf? We gotta have credentials to have opinions now?

Where do we get those Barry? Is there a gov't agency (Bureau of Opinions and Beliefs? BooB)where we go for a license or what?

Dan O,

The process is much simpler. You can apply for credentials in this site. Myself (from a liberal point of view) and Barry (from a conservative point of view) will review your application and determine your eligibility to criticize liberal and/or conservative politicians. As you can see the system is fair and balanced, and it works.

We look forward to receiving your application and I will make sure you get an expedited review.

You can apply for credentials in this site. Myself (from a liberal point of view) and Barry (from a conservative point of view) will review your application and determine your eligibility to criticize liberal and/or conservative politicians.

hahahaha! And they say that Blogging lacks the peer-review of traditional media!

Well, I was filling out the app, but when I got to the part about the filing fee, I decided I would like to keep both of mine. ;)

Bush lied us into a war, killed more U.S. citizens than the terrorists by his stupidity and incompetence in the execution of the illegal war, and now refuses to leave until his oil buddies are assured of never-ending massive profits from Iraqi oil in the future.

The Repug war chest is being funded by Rape at the Gas Pump. They knew they will need billions to somehow stay in power after Chimp ran what used to be America six feet into the ground.

Uhhhhh Barely I hate to explain this to you (for only about the eighth time!), but no politician can control the price of oil or gasoline.

Oil speculators (average citizens) buy oil futures and those directly determine the price of oil.

I've made profits every year over the last ten by buying unleaded gasoline futures in mid-February and selling them off in mid-May...and I and others will continue to do that and bid oil futures/prices up...and UP...and UP until either we raise refinery capacity (that'll kill some of the joy), or find new oil sources (another real kill-joy possibility) or we move to an alternative fuel.

People who buy and sell gasoline futures are the ones directly responsible (at least mostly, as the way one bets is determined by other market factors - refinery capacity, OPEC and non-Opec Production, national oil reserves capacity, etc) for gasoline price spikes.

I sold some futures last week. I bought them comparatively cheap in mid-February, weeks before the "summer blend" switch-over, that closes some refineries for the change-over. All I can say is IGM (I've Got Mine)!!!.....Somehow I doubt GW or Dick C are big oil futures speculators.

I don't know why, I just doubt it very much.

Record profits, massive record profits, for the oil companies, dumbass.

That blows your theory right out of the water, doesn't it?

Record profits prove NOTHING.

Did you worry about the Big Energy Comapnies when they lost money when oil was selling for less than $15/barrell in the late 1990s.

Since then, THANKFULLY (it's good for ALL of us) China and India have been industrializing at record rates and the demand for world oil has skyrocketed.

Sadly for us, government regulations have made it impossible for our beleagured Energy Companies to build more refineries and local governments have demanded a slew of varying summer blends that brings refinery capacity down every spring - the change-over is March 1st.

Americans must learn to be happy when companies like Texaco, Chevron and Exxon-Mobil all make record profits - it's GOOD for America.

If you don't like paying higher prices at the pump, ask state governments to stop mandating those ridiculous "summer blends," and to drop restrictions that make building refineries harder.

Better yet, do what I do, every February - buy unleaded gasoline futures (leverage between $48K - $64K for $5,000) and sell for major profits in mid-May.

It won't keep gas prices lower, in fact, if anything, it'll keep them spiking, BUT, it'll sure make visits to the pump a lot easier to take.

Stop lying, ass. The oil companies have been allowed to merge and merge and merge until a few of them own everything from the ground to the pump.

What have they done? They have closed refinery after refinery, to ARTIFICIALLY lower supply. They still refuse to build refineries. Why would they want gasoline to be plentiful.

JMK: "Because it is GOOD for Americans to pay the BUSH TAX at the pump, as this regressive tax goes right from the pockets of the middle class into the pockets of the uber-wealthy who cooked up the whole neocon "New World Order" nazi plan!"

Your blaming the wrong villain for our refinery capacity problems.

We haven't seen American refineries close, what we'vce seen is amidst increasing deamnd, Energy companies haven't been able to get government permission to build new refineries.

Damn, now that Rosie's quit The View where will you get your whacky conspiracy theories from?

And it's odd that YOU a first-class racial bigot, who reviles Indians and others who compete for formerly American jobs, despise Israel (thus Jews), would have a problem with a "nazistic New World Order."

I mean at first glance, one might think nazism would go well with your overall world view....just an interesting observation, is all.

Heh, then I should be supporting Bush, as he is trying to declare himself dictator.

Israel sucks. I don't like Israel. I don't like all Jews either. Hell, I don't like YOU, but that doesn't make me "anti-fireman" you dumb motherfucker.

It makes me anti-moron.